Q & A On Voting Catholic with Fr. Torraco
Is not the Church’s stand that abortion must be illegal a bit of an exception? Does not the Church generally hold that government should restrict its legislation of morality significantly?
The Church’s teaching that abortion should be illegal is not an exception. St. Thomas Aquinas put it this way: “Wherefore human laws do not forbid all vices, from which the virtuous abstain, but only the more grievous vices, from which it is possible for the majority to abstain; and chiefly those that are to the hurt of others, without the prohibition of which human society could not be maintained: thus human law prohibits murder, theft and such like.”
Abortion qualifies as a grievous vice that hurts others, and the lack of prohibition of this evil by society is something by which human society cannot be maintained. As Pope John Paul II has emphasized, the denial of the right to life, in principle, sets the stage, in principle, for the denial of all other rights.
posted by Moderator @ 6:06 AM
21 Comments
21 Comments:
To me, the last sentence is the crux of the matter. If our very right to life is not protected, what does it matter if a politician is going to help the economy or be a champion for education or better health care? If a politician does not protect the unborn, why would seniors or the disabled, or people with blue eyes feel safe?
Just yesterday Nancy Pelosi stated (in reaction to Ted Kennedy's diagnosis of a malignant brain tumor), that he was a fighter. She went on to say as many pro abort politicians do, that Kennedy has fought for our children, our seniors etc. I think all pro abortion politicians should have to qualify their statements on fighting for "our children"...after all they aren't talking about the ones in the womb, or in Obama's case, those who are born despite an abortion.
Although I am sorry to hear that someone has been diagnosed with a fatal cancer, I am elated that this person will soon be removed from the political process in the US Senate.
He has been a selfish hypocrite all throughout his tenure. He is not a good Catholic Senator and I cannot wait for him to be replaced. I think this country has given him a free pass for far too long (ever since he had his incident with Mary Jo Kopechne where he came out unscratched and she was left under water).
It is not immoral to pray for someone's death if they are evil. It is, however, immoral to wish someone to go to hell. I am praying for a quick death so we do not have to endure a year-long eulogy for this baby killer.
Although I am totally against his views, I do pray for Ted Kennedy, through the Mercy of Our Lord, the Holy Spirit and Our Lady's intercession, to have a change of heart and a conversion in full obedience to the Magisterium.
Also, found this statement by Father Corapi at St. Monica's Kneeler (she also gives credit to catholicfire.blogspot. It really sums up this discussion on voting.
Words of Father Corapi, for all my politician friends and relatives and those who vote for them:
"Catholic office holders, whether presidents, senators, congress men or women, or judges at any level must adhere to Catholic teaching or run the risk of separating themselves from the Body of Christ. In such egregious and chronic cases of gross moral evil such as instituting and perpetuating abortion and the structures of sin that surround it, it is quite probable that such Catholic officials are excommunicated in virtue of the acts themselves. A latae sententiae (automatic) excommunication is likely triggered when they vote for laws, funding, and structures that enable and perpetuate such obvious and egregious evil (Cf. Code of Canon Law, Canons 1364,1398; Canon 1329, par. #2). They are in turn forbidden from approaching the sacraments as the result (Cf. Catechism of Catholic Church #1463)."
"It is not morally possible for any Catholic to support abortion, euthanasia, fetal stem cell research, human cloning, or same-sex marriage. There are no ways around this, no justifications whatever. Why? For the simple reason that the Church holds these things to be intrinsically evil. They are evil in themselves, and no circumstances or subjective conditions can ever change that."
Clipped from catholicfire.blogspot.com
I don't agree with Gloria regarding Ted Kennedy. No matter what his views have been regarding things we find sinful and feel he should also, we NEVER wish anyone to die. Just because we may think they are evil, does not mean God has not seen much good in them.
He is not my favorite person in politics either, but this man has been there for his family through thick and thin for over 40 years.
Jesus looked for the good in all people! I thought that is what makes us Christians!
How sad to wish someone to die!
Gloria,
Your angry feelings and rightousness is sad to hear.
I will pray for you, and all who feel that way. We are not here to judge but to pray for changes in people to be one with God before their passing.
Only God can take, and give life, PERIOD!!
I'm with Gloria on this one.
Would you rather we pray that he recover quickly, through God's grace, that he can continue his advocacy of abortion on demand from the throne of his high Senate seat?
We all die sometime. My opinion is it is better that he die quickly and we can possibly save more babies.
Evil is evil and should not be condoned under any circumstance lest you be held as an accomplice to the act itself. He votes for evil and is being praised for it in the media. This is a terrible message to give our children.
Ted Kennedy has been a terrible pimple on the face of this great country for too many decades.
I will pray for his soul, and that of Hitler's, Stalin's and all of the other evil people this world has seen in my lifetime. I will also pray for him to pass quickly. He stands for one very important thing that no Catholic voter can endorse and that is abortion. It is a deal-breaker.
It IS morally correct to pray that an evil person die rather than be enabled to continue doing harm to those who we would label as victims. It is NOT morally correct to wish someone to hell.
I am very sad for all of you.
If this is what the regular people on this blog feel, I no longer will be part of it.
This is not the way to bring the Springs and Our Lady of America to the church and to Her Children.
This is no more than hate mongering.
This reminds me of similar people who felt all that all had to be and think like them or they were not worthy of life and God's judgement; people like Hitler, and Stalin. Need I go on??
Other regulars have stopped speaking on this blog for reasons similar to this. I no longer will either!!
My dear God what is wrong with you people filled with so much hate and judgement.
Kathy, i, is correct. What has happened to a blog that was supposed to be for the love of Our Lady of America and getting Her into the Basilica?
This is hate mongering and I would never pray for anyone to die, no matter how much I felt I were against what they did and believed in. That is not what Jesus came to teach and give His life for.
God save you!
Kathy i and "Anonymous"-
we can disagree on this.
I checked with my own spiritual advisor and he agrees that it is "morally O.K." to pray for an evil-doer to die. we aren't killing anybody. we are just asking God to remove this person from this earth so they cannot harm us anymore. God can do anything. he might even get these evil people to change. It's His call. I'm just asking for help from above.
You say:
"If this is what the regular people on this blog feel, I no longer will be part of it."
I can't recall ever seeing your name before. When have you commented before?
I certainly don't have any answers for anybody, but I think the question of praying for an evil person to die is certainly worthy of discussion. Heck, I've learned so much from the discussion of Catholic voting and I thought I already knew the answers. I was wrong on a number of misconceptions.
I voted for Obama, so I guess I've committed a mortal sin if he gets elected.
If I wasn't clear enough I do pray for Ted Kennedy and his family. Regardless of his pro-abortion stance, he is still one of God's children. I do not agree that you should pray for someone to die, no matter what they stand for. To me that is judging others. Besides we never know what God has in store for people. Before St. Paul was knocked off his horse, many people thought he was terrible since he killed and persecuted Christians. What if someone had killed him before the "lightning bolt" moment? God can use all people for great things.
Our Lady said, "Bring me my children, bring me all my children"...I'm sure that includes Ted Kennedy.
In Charity,
pam j
It's not Kathy i, it's Kathy l and I have commented off and on. I don't know who anonymous is, but you people like Gerald and Gloria are not Christian thinking and just because you think Ted Kennedy is evil, does not make him evil. We are not talking about a terrorist here. So that doesn't even coincide with the biblical things you are saying. And furthermore WHO decides who is Evil, certainly I hope not people like you and Gloria!!
God help us. Don't worry if you don't remember me before, beause I am through reading and ever commenting again on this blog. This has become not what I originally thought it was supposed to be. It was a blog to get people involved and knwoing about the springs and OLOA and Her messages. Now it is nothing more than a political, radical and hateful place like many blogs that are being asked to be removed.
God help you all!!
Oh, well. I guess it's okay for Kathy "1" to judge and have an opinion, but everyone else can't?
She'll be back. They can't stay away.
Where were you when Anon was spouting off? Not commenting, that's for sure.
Finally, another interesting comment stream.
What's wrong with asking God to end a bad person's life if it will save innocent victims? People die all the time don't they? It's in God's hands isn't it?
I would think it would be wrong to ask for God to end my neighbor's life just because he's a jerk. However, if I know he is a killer and the cops can't do anything and I know he will hurt more people, where's the problem with that? God can veto any request I make if He wants. I'm just thinking of the next victims, not the perpetrator.
Wasn't it St. Rita that prayed that God would end her sons' lives before they could commit mortal sin by exacting revenge on their father's killer? They ended up dead and we made her a saint. What's up with that? How is that alright and Ted Kennedy (baby killer)is given a pass?
I can see the point of both sides. My personal tendency would be to pray for the conversion of the oppressor, but I could see where praying to God for relief by asking Him to end this person's earthly existence could be considered moral.
After all, God put him there and He'll take him away. Sooner just might be the better option for those who may be the next victims of this particular person.
I think more people are just more upset that Ted Kennedy is the example. He's just a perfect example of who a true Catholic CANNOT ever vote for if there is a pro-life candidate available.
Ted Kennedy has chosen to endorse the intrinsic evils of abortion and gay marriage (both against the instruction of The Church).
He "enjoys?" a 100% approval rating from NARAL.
How does a guy go from being an ardent supporter of pro-life causes in 1971 to being one of the poster politicians for the exact opposite policy throughout the last 37 years? I'm willing to bet at least 40,000,000 babies have been aborted due, in large part, to support of "good family men" like Ted Kennedy.
I hope he has the manhood within him to recant his support of the culture of death he has helped foster these many years.
He has, in effect, excommunicated himself from Mother Church. Why did not any of the Bishops or priests deny him Communion? Maybe they are too afraid to be true defenders of the faith?
Kathy 1 said:
"just because you think Ted Kennedy is evil, does not make him evil. We are not talking about a terrorist here."
No, we are talking about an individual who is a figurehead for an entire terrorist organization that has cloaked itself under a mantle of government protection.
If you don't want to listen to my opinion, just ask the babies who have been aborted if they think Ted Kennedy and all of the other pro-abortionists are terrorists.
Kathyl said:
"but this man has been there for his family through thick and thin for over 40 years"
Oh, yeah? He turned his back on his own mother's beliefs and he has not been a good role model for kids at all with all of his partying and sleeping around. Just like his brothers no doubt.
Some family man. BTW whatever happened to Mary Jo?
I am all for forgiving someone but I sure as heck won't forget their evil tendencies.
I don't agree with Gloria or Gerald although I can understand their logic.
What I don't understand is the total putdown by Kathyl and Anonymous of a beautiful website that fosters discussion and learning of Catholic doctrine. All because they disagree with two comments from viewers?
What about the posts? That's what you are supposed to comment on. If you don't agree with the way somebody else sees things are you always going to condemn everyone else before you leave in a huff?
If anyone was being judgmental, they are too!
God's will be done regarding the outcome of Sen. Kennedy's affliction. I pray for both his spiritual and physical healing.
He seems to be spiritually in worse condition than he is physically, but who among us is without sin? Let him cast the first stone.
God bless you all and keep you in good spiritual and physical health
Kathyl and the anonymous person shouldn't be angry with the blog. They should participate more. They're like the types who always complain about how things are run but don't do anything themselves to try and make it better.
Now, that's sad.
Please reconsider and join in the discussions more so the community can learn from each other.
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