More on Catholic Voters with Fr. Stephen F. Torraco, PhD
If I may not vote for a pro-abortion candidate, then should it not also be true that I can’t vote for a pro-capital punishment candidate?
It is not correct to think of abortion and capital punishment as the very same kind of moral issue. On the one hand, direct abortion is an intrinsic evil, and cannot be justified for any purpose or in any circumstances. On the other hand, the Church has always taught that it is the right and responsibility of the legitimate temporal authority to defend and preserve the common good, and more specifically to defend citizens against the aggressor. This defense against the aggressor may resort to the death penalty if no other means of defense is sufficient.
The point here is that the death penalty is understood as an act of self-defense on the part of civil society. In more recent times, in his encyclical Evangelium Vitae, Pope John Paul II has taught that the need for such self-defense to resort to the death penalty is “rare, if not virtually nonexistent.”
Thus, while the Pope is saying that the burden of proving the need for the death penalty in specific cases should rest on the shoulders of the legitimate temporal authority, it remains true that the legitimate temporal authority alone has the authority to determine if and when a “rare” case arises that warrants the death penalty.
Moreover, if such a rare case does arise and requires resorting to capital punishment, this societal act of self-defense would be a *morally good action* even if it does have the unintended and unavoidable evil effect of the death of the aggressor.
Thus, unlike the case of abortion, it would be morally irresponsible to rule out all such “rare” possibilities a priori, just as it would be morally irresponsible to apply the death penalty indiscriminately.
posted by Moderator @ 5:40 PM
11 Comments
11 Comments:
This essay seems to be detached from reality. It appears to concede that imposition of the death penalty is only permissible when it is the only way to protect society from the person to be executed. What does that have to do with the more than a thousand souls that are on death row high security incarceration? How is it possible to discuss this matter without discussing that fact -- unless one simply fines the facts inconvenient?
Does the author reject JPIIs statement that justification for imposition of the death penalty is “rare, if not virtually nonexistent.” If so, why does not the author discuss how that counsel can be reconciled with the death penalty roster in the United States?
The author appears to state that it is for the State to decide whether imposition of the death penalty is required and that no one can properly challenge that claim "[I]t remains true that the legitimate temporal authority alone has the authority to determine if and when a “rare” case arises that warrants the death penalty". Note the quite obviously intentional insertion of the word "alone". It would be interesting to see what authority that is the source of that contention.
To follow the advice of this article would be to pander to the most horrid exercises of governmental authority.
It takes courage to speak to the dignity of human life when the person, rightly or wrongly, has been declared a pariah. Peter did not have the courage, but later recognized and admitted his failing. Christ displayed that courage several times, including, as his own life was ebbing away on the cross.
Perhaps Father Torraco can attempt to address what is rather than the theoretical basis for what is not.
On Anon
Anon,
We went over this in the last thread.
The state may be incorrect in its judgment, but the Death Penalty is not an intrinsic issue. It is a matter of prudential judgment.
Moral teachings work like this-- we take a general rule that is found in the natural law, and apply the general rule to particular situations. That is why situations are discussed on a theoretical or abstract level.
We can never support pro-abortion candidates. However, we can use prudential judgment on candidates as they related to the Death Penalty. You may decide you can not support a Death Penalty candidate, while another person may decide they can.
To follow the advice of this article would be to place one's self in agreement with the Church's teaching on these matters. If you would like some basic introductions to Church teaching on these matters, I can recommend some books.
In addition, my offer remains open if you would like to discuss these matters via e-mail. I'd like to answer all your questions, but the length to give each a full answer would require more than one comment box.
This is the same question that was asked and answered in a previous thread.
Anon did not accept the response from Luke at that time (which was correct according to Church teaching) and is not accepting of Fr. Torraco's explanation of the Church's position either.
If you don't accept the Catholic teaching, go join another Church.
Anon, if you are in such disagreement with Catholic doctrine, why are you so attracted to this particular site? Is it your devotion to Our Lady of America and Rome City?
To Luke and Gerald -
1. The Torraco analysis, which you support, is, in my view, fatally defective, so to speak. It speaks of "rare" cases in circumstances where there is no rarity. It gives to the state "alone" the right to determine whether its execution decision and pattern properly falls within such a rare case exception.
It is a typical instance of formalized gobbledygook substituting for reason and charity. There is no apparent recognition that the quality of judgment and the scope of its application can be malum in se.
There is no international stupidity or moral error that has caused most of the world to differ with the execution compulsion that reigns in a number of states of the Union, particularly in states that have historically shown little value for the dignity of human life as shown by their formal support of slavery and segregation.
2. You ask why, for the time being, I am writing on this site. As Willy Sutton might have said, I write here because I see a need for here for promotion of the principles that Christ lived and died for.
As for the concept of "Our Lady of American", I cannot agree that there is any Heavenly bias for or against any geographically or politically defined entity. If any one knows of anything Christ ever said that would support such a narrowly focused view, I would be happy to hear of it. Can you imagine "Christ of America" or Christ wearing an American flag pin? If so, say so and we can discuss it.
Best wishes,
On Anon
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Once again Anon-
the only thing wrong with Capital punishment is the nutcases like you who want to tell the rest of society how to deal with their garbage.
If somebody has clearly MURDERED innocent people, I would be happy to pull the switch or buy the rope to end the problem. I think these executions should also be made more public because if our citizens don't see it, it may as well have not happened.
BTW: Like you, I am not Catholic either.
Anon-
how did you get internet access under that rock of yours?
what kind of church do you belong to? I can't believe you would entertain the notion of even walking into a Catholic Church with all of your apparent anger against authority.
Anon said:
"Can you imagine "Christ of America" or Christ wearing an American flag pin?"
Yes. I can imagine it. He is also wearing a white polo shirt and khaki dockers. He looks a lot like my neighbor Don.
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It's pretty obvious from Anon's response about this website that she has no idea of why it is we have a devotion to Our Lady of America.
This person is simply a troll looking to cause trouble under the guise of a "discussion". Sounds like someone with a bad "Jesus complex". This person needs help with spiritual guidance greater than anyone on earth can give. She will not take spiritual direction from priests or Popes in the Church.
Anon,
Thank you for your desire to save us. However, the Church already has a savior.
If you're going to take such issue with Church teaching, I would strongly encourage you to first find out what the Church actually teaches.
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